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Thread: Interesting case: Bet365

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    As per usual, regardless of whose money it was, they were happy to pocket the 25K, under the assumption the bet would be a loser.

    But when it comes to pay-out time, its a different story. Its time to play the fraud card.

    This particular aspect of bookmaking is one of the most rank and hypocritical.

    If the money placed was fraudulent, that should be the case when the bet is placed, not when the bet is a winner.
    Last edited by Marb; 11th July 2017 at 3:34 PM.

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    Interesting case: Bet365

    A related (but far less serious) issue I have is with bookies who demand proof of identity before they'll release funds. They're only too happy to accept deposits with no such proof, no doubt expecting the entire amount will be lost.

    I've seen this story elsewhere but haven't seen anything that says what the "reasonable grounds" that lead Bet365 to suspect fraud might be. Would be great to see this get to court and Bet365 forced to pay up




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    Last edited by viking; 11th July 2017 at 4:20 PM.

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    edit
    Last edited by Marb; 12th July 2017 at 12:50 PM.

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    Sorry but that's not my experience. Possibly because of the level at which I bet, I've just withdrawn £200 from Bet365 in 30 seconds flat. There was a clear notification that the maximum withdrawal was £20k.

    Half the discussions on here are about how to put one over on bookies. Why is anyone remotely surprised when they have defence systems? If her case was legit, she'd be the first student in history to have the odd £25k to put on this sort of bet. If she's the front for Slim & co (or similar), they will know the rules right down to the smallest of print. It may be that they know the rules better than Bet365 themselves, in which case good luck to them. Whatever, it's almost impossible that she's anything other than a figure-head and, in the end, it will be the vast majority of £10 to £50 punters who pay the price.
    The older I get the better I was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Sorry but that's not my experience. Possibly because of the level at which I bet, I've just withdrawn £200 from Bet365 in 30 seconds flat. There was a clear notification that the maximum withdrawal was £20k.

    Half the discussions on here are about how to put one over on bookies. Why is anyone remotely surprised when they have defence systems? If her case was legit, she'd be the first student in history to have the odd £25k to put on this sort of bet. If she's the front for Slim & co (or similar), they will know the rules right down to the smallest of print. It may be that they know the rules better than Bet365 themselves, in which case good luck to them. Whatever, it's almost impossible that she's anything other than a figure-head and, in the end, it will be the vast majority of £10 to £50 punters who pay the price.

    No it will be compulsive gamblers and those that play online games that pay the price.Never had you down as a bookmaker apologist.Why did they accept the bet if they were going to refuse payment-morally wrong.

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    I imagine that that will be part of the defence. At the moment we only have the 'student' story so maybe take a pull and let it work itself out?
    The older I get the better I was.

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    Interesting case: Bet365

    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    Sorry but that's not my experience. Possibly because of the level at which I bet, I've just withdrawn £200 from Bet365 in 30 seconds flat. There was a clear notification that the maximum withdrawal was £20k.
    Should have mentioned it's only some bookies who seem to need ID. In the last year or so TitanBet and Netbet have been the culprits

    Others like Skybet and Bet365 release funds quickly enough


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    Last edited by viking; 11th July 2017 at 7:27 PM.

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    edit
    Last edited by Marb; 12th July 2017 at 12:51 PM.

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    Senior Member Desert Orchid's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever been asked for ID to make a withdrawal, and I've withdrawn thousands over the years.
    Illegitimi non carborundum


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    We're not assuming its happened to everyone, but it has happend to a few people.
    Last edited by Marb; 12th July 2017 at 12:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Orchid View Post
    I don't think I've ever been asked for ID to make a withdrawal, and I've withdrawn thousands over the years.

    Have you sent in KYC forms?

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    A few things.

    1. There was a flaw in the Bet365 system that allowed permed multiples and you could check the max bet you were allowed. Bet365 did not accept the bet as sjuch, it was a failure of their risk system. No one had previously been stupid/greedy enough to place a £25 perm on a 19yo account before.
    2. The firm involved were banking on a horse from a 16 runner Irish handicap in a stable now notorious for cheating/gambles
    3. It would not be possible for bookmakers to KYC every customer at the point they open an account. I've had accounts where I've done my brains and the bookmaker has chased me to verify the account
    4. It's quite possible this bet was places using a bookmaker IP address
    5. If this goes to court the student is going to have to perjure herself, you're no longer "getting one over on the bookmakers" when it goes to court.
    6. It is fairly well known in betting circles who was behind the bet although some guessers have been way off when checking their story with me. I hope the arrogant **** doesn't get paid. Bet365 have shut down on the back of this. He's ruined Xmas for everybody.
    7. Had he not been so greedy and stakes 5k he'd have spent the 250k by now. Rule number 1 of betting is make sure you get paid. This bet was ridiculously arrogant and was done to prove "his brilliance" and not to win money. Ego doesn't pay.
    Last edited by SlimChance; 11th July 2017 at 8:47 PM.

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    You obviously know a lot more about it than me but as a general point bookmakers seem very happy to open accounts and leave you back losers over a period of months without mentioning KYC-trying to make the first withdrawal seems to be the default first mention of KYC.

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    SlimChance
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    You obviously know a lot more about it than me but as a general point bookmakers seem very happy to open accounts and leave you back losers over a period of months without mentioning KYC-trying to make the first withdrawal seems to be the default first mention of KYC.
    I don't really see a problem with it. Paypal and banks are as bad if not worse. People seem to forget that bookmakers need to follow stringent money laundering laws, its not aimed to just **** off winning punters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    You obviously know a lot more about it than me but as a general point bookmakers seem very happy to open accounts and leave you back losers over a period of months without mentioning KYC-trying to make the first withdrawal seems to be the default first mention of KYC.
    You need to blame the UKGC/Goverment for that. It can't be money laundering until there is a withdrawal, so they don't bother checking until then, nor do they have to.
    No one would open accounts if they had to go through KYC before placing a bet. there are a couple of casinos that will block accounts if they haven't done KYC within 48 hours, but thats a choice rather than a requirement.
    The reason some bookmakers don't seem to do KYC checks on customers is that they will do it electronically (check your credit files, there will be entries from bookmakers if you have made a withdrawal). If the company is based outside the UK its much less likely they will be able to do it that way.

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    Surely it would be good business practice to insist that the KYC process be completed within a month or 6 weeks.I have no doubt that a high percentage of people who try to make a withdrawal and get the runaround with KYC go on tilt or just blow the balance of the account.I know it's not related but I asked betfair to take away the ability to reverse withdrawals from my account and they said it wasn't possible and they only had the facility because customers had asked for it-they suggested timing out for 24 hours but they can take 48 hours to process a withdrawal.I believe we should have some kind of fair go legislation for punters like they do in Australia to cut out all the cheap tricks that bookmakers use.

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    can someone explain why...

    'But rather than pay up, bet365 has withheld the sum as well as Miss McCann’s initial stake of £24,960.'

    from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...n-horse-races/

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    If they think it is a potentially fraudulent transaction, they're perhaps compelled to hold onto the stake until it's proven otherwise?
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by LUKE View Post
    Surely it would be good business practice to insist that the KYC process be completed within a month or 6 weeks.I have no doubt that a high percentage of people who try to make a withdrawal and get the runaround with KYC go on tilt or just blow the balance of the account.
    Of course they do, and that should answer why they don't insist on it being done. The UKGC could change that, but they are toothless the majority of times.

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