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Thread: Novice Chasers 2017/2018

  1. #841
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    The SS rating sounds like a pre-race one obtained from a Timeform racecard. Like you said 175p was Sprinter's master rating for his novice season.

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Timeform Chasers & Hurdlers has them rated as follows: Sprinter Sacre 175p, Douvan 180p.

    Sprinter Sacre's C&H rating may also reflect his Aintree win, and Douvan's may reflect his Aintree and Punchestown wins, in their respective novice seasons.

    I'm not sure where the 184 and 169 figures come from, but if that's how they rated them both post-Arkle, then the figures are clearly wrong - there wouldn't be anything like a stone between the two performances. Are you sure the numbers are right?
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  3. #843
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    I reckon that must be wrong.......10lbs higher than Footpad and 15lbs higher than Douvan?.........it's obvious it's wrong!......did you challenge the Tweeter?
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Footpad is going to be special if not fuc+ed about.

    Only concern is longevity and French horses running since juvelines.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

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    Senior Member tiggers1972's Avatar
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    Does anyone have any concerns about Footpad being as effective on better ground?

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    Senior Member Frankel's Avatar
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    Over the minimum trip then yes potentially.
    All comers, all grounds, all beaten!

    This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.

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    Senior Member swedish chef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggers1972 View Post
    Does anyone have any concerns about Footpad being as effective on better ground?
    No he has improved big time and will win 2019 Queen Mother, whatever the ground.
    Pluralism of Ideas and the prosperity of any land are intertwined. Freedom of minds and skill of intellect to 'think the unthinkable' is how humanity has progressed; when minds are incarcerated nothing endures.

  8. #848
    Senior Member swedish chef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    True but you can't for one minute say Sizing John was not and lets not forget he also won over 2m4f beating Djakadam rate 167 by 7 lengths.

    It would be nonsense to say Cue Card was a better horse at any distance.



    Sprinter Sacre: Time: 3m 51.10s (fast by 0.90s) Going: (Old course) Chase & Hurdle courses - GOOD (Good to soft in places; watered; 7.3); Cross-country course - GOOD TO FIRM
    Douvan: Time: 3m 48.60s (fast by 3.40s) Going: GOOD TO SOFT (Soft in places; 7.0)

    Both horses cruised through their races until 4 out...Despite running on slower ground Douvan put up a faster overall time.
    The times are wrong Tanlic - I've just run the two races together from the start and from the first flight - Sprinter came out 3-4L in front easing down in the last 50 yards Here you have a go and play them together. I would have SS performance the better but not by such a margin as Timeform.

    http://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/video...81921/15379775 Douvan

    http://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/video...47811/12159998 Sprinter Sacre
    Last edited by swedish chef; 22nd March 2018 at 9:33 PM.
    Pluralism of Ideas and the prosperity of any land are intertwined. Freedom of minds and skill of intellect to 'think the unthinkable' is how humanity has progressed; when minds are incarcerated nothing endures.

  9. #849
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    The times from flag fall are correct. Don't listen to the commentator because they paused for a second or so in Sprinters race. Hence Douvan's faster time overall but that is not what interested me.

    I made the times about the same from the 1st fence but it's when they start racing that caught my eye.

    Run the 2 together from 4 out when Sprinter Scare kicked

    Then run the 2 together from 3 out and you will get a shock.
    Last edited by Tanlic; 23rd March 2018 at 6:54 AM.
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  10. #850
    Senior Member swedish chef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanlic View Post
    The times from flag fall are correct. Don't listen to the commentator because they paused for a second or so in Sprinters race. Hence Douvan's faster time overall but that is not what interested me.

    I made the times about the same from the 1st fence but it's when they start racing that caught my eye.

    Run the 2 together from 4 out when Sprinter Scare kicked

    Then run the 2 together from 3 out and you will get a shock.
    I concede your point They are obviously closer together than their Timeform marks. Two of the best two mile chasers we have seen and we have been spoilt in this division over the years. Long may it continue. Possibly Altior & Footpad?
    Pluralism of Ideas and the prosperity of any land are intertwined. Freedom of minds and skill of intellect to 'think the unthinkable' is how humanity has progressed; when minds are incarcerated nothing endures.

  11. #851
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I reckon that must be wrong.......10lbs higher than Footpad and 15lbs higher than Douvan?.........it's obvious it's wrong!......did you challenge the Tweeter?
    Apart from saying LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL not really
    Last edited by Tanlic; 23rd March 2018 at 9:03 AM.
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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swedish chef View Post
    I concede your point They are obviously closer together than their Timeform marks. Two of the best two mile chasers we have seen and we have been spoilt in this division over the years. Long may it continue. Possibly Altior & Footpad?
    If Footpad handles good ground as well as he does heavy I would back him to outgun Altior.

    That is one big if
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  13. #853
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Footpad's Good ground efforts over hurdles, wouldn't be very far behind his efforts on softer ground - if they're behind at all.

    I would have no worries about him acting on it over fences, and still being able to produce his best (or close enough to it that it barely matters).
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    What races on good ground ? He ran on it twice and was beaten both times. Once by the horse he just kicked into touch after he couldn't go the early pace and the other in a very poor renewal of the Triumph.
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  15. #855
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Footpad's run in the Irish Champion Hurdle on Good ground, when beaten 1L by Petit Mouchoir, is almost certainly as good as his Champion Hurdle run behind Buveur D'Air on Good-to-Soft. These are without doubt his best two runs over hurdles from a ratings perspective, and came on two of the quickest surfaces that he has encountered to date.

    His Triumph defeat is irrelevant imo, given he ran to a mark about a stone higher on Good ground in the ICH the following year. "Beaten both times" equally irrelevant, given it's abundantly clear he is a much better chaser than hurdler.

    Anyone looking to oppose Footpad over fences on better ground would be taking a chance, imo.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 23rd March 2018 at 1:43 PM.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    We might not know for some time. There's a saying at Irish Racecourses..."If you can see the first fence down the back it's going to rain, if you can't see it it's raining"
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    Footpad proved a star turn for Willie Mullins in the Racing Post Arkle at Cheltenham, but that has not stopped Gigginstown House Stud taking aim at him again in the Ryanair Gold Cup at Fairyhouse on Sunday with third-placed Petit Mouchoir.

    Throw Gigginstown's JLT Novices' Chase heroine Shattered Love into the mix and we could be in for another thriller after Gigginstown won the race 12 months ago when Road To Respect got the better of Yorkhill in a dramatic encounter.

    Making up almost 15 lengths on the odds-on Cheltenham winner perhaps looks a fool's errand for Petit Mouchoir, but he and Saint Calvados raced very keenly that day to set the race up for Footpad and he will be fitted with headgear in a bid to get him to settle better with an extra-half mile to travel.

    Ryanair Gold Cup Novice Chase card, form and betting

    The Henry de Bromhead-trained Petit Mouchoir has been fitted with a hood on five occasions, winning a Punchestown bumper and a Thurles maiden hurdle in one on his first two starts under rules, but has not worn the aid since the 2016 Supreme Novices' Hurdle.

    Eddie O’Leary, racing manager for Gigginstown, said: "We’ll put headgear back on him, try to settle him and hopefully get home over 2m4f.”

    O'Leary added: “We’re also aiming Shattered Love at the race. Gordon [Elliott] has been very happy with her since Cheltenham, so that’s the plan.”
    be interesting to see if Footpad actually lines up here and not sure sending Petit Mouchoir over a longer trip is a smart move

  18. #858
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    A step up shouldn't inconvenience the grey
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  19. #859
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    Footpad wouldn't be inconvenienced, but I agree with James. He won the Arkle in a particularly fast time on heavy ground. I'm not sure such a quick reappearance over a half a mile further makes much sense. Particularly when they have Punchestown to target. Also, should he be turned over they make well take the view that he doesn't want the intermediate trip, when in reality it could be because he's still feeling the effects of Cheltenham. I see nothing to gain from this so late in the season.

    If the trainers championship is on their mind, then with a horse like Footpad I think they should think again and mind him properly for next season and give him more time until Punchestown.

    Petit Mouchoir on the other hand may as well go that route, but again he had a tough race at Cheltenham. I'd concede though, that if Footpad didn't turn up he may get a penalty kick.
    Last edited by Maruco; 27th March 2018 at 7:35 AM.

  20. #860
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Footpad will barely have known he was in a race at Cheltenham - should definitely be allowed to take his chance.

    The intermediate trip holds no fears for him, and connections are unlikely to write him off as strictly a 2-miler, even if he’s beaten. They know he stays 2m4f well from his runs in France.
    "Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".

    SlimChance, March 2018

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