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Thread: Novice Chasers 2017/2018

  1. #41
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    I heard someone comparing Finian's Oscar to Denman and it got me thinking

    If twitter had to be around when Denman was a novice, how much hype he would have had

    I am very excited about FO, but do feel a lot of his hype is down to a trainers comment at an open day
    Last edited by granger; 27th September 2017 at 12:42 PM.
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

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  3. #42
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    To be fair, there was plenty of enthusiasm for Denman, when he progressed into novice-chase ranks.....just not on Twitter. He was all-over shitty old platforms like Racing Forums, back in the day.

    I can see why the comparisons are being made, based on their respective novice-hurdle seasons, as they've probably achieved roughly the same sort of level, but The Tank leaves big hoof-prints for any horse to fill. I'm not entirely certain that FO is up to it, but equally, I do have high-hopes for him as a novice chaser. Talk of the Arkle for the horse is, frankly, insane, imho - he will want the JLT trip as a minimum, and likely the RSA will prove the perfect race for him this season, as I think he is all about galloping. He would get murdered for a turn-of-foot over the Arkle trip, I reckon - especially on Good ground.

    Edit: Denman was rated 155 by Chasers & Hurdlers in his novice hurdle season. I expect FO will be rated within a handful of lbs of that, when the book is published next month.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 27th September 2017 at 12:51 PM.
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  5. #43
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    How good could poor Nicanor have been
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  6. #44
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    How good could poor Nicanor have been
    C&H that year rated him h157p. Describing him as good-topped, they reckoned the seven horses who followed him home in the RSA Hurdle, looked likely to make better chasers than hurdlers, and that a drop back in trip (with Arkle as a target) would not see him to any disadvantage. Nicanor eventually re-appeared in 2009, after 3 years off the track, over 2m2f in Gowran, where he ran with some credit in defeat. He was winless in a subsequent further 15 outings. Definitely a case of what might have been.

    For the record, the horses who followed Nicanor home in that RSA Hurdle are detailed below, with their C&H novice-chase rating from the following season, also shown:

    Denman (c161p)
    Refinement (stayed over hurdles)
    Mr Nosie (didn't race)
    Mr Pointment (c140)
    Rimsky (didn't race)
    Glasker Mill (c117)
    Letterman (c120)

    With hindsight, it's little wonder the first two finished well clear.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 27th September 2017 at 2:02 PM.
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  8. #45
    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    I'm sworn off festival ante post on novices until NRNB (with one exception), but if I was having one bet it would be FO for the JLT

    Re Denman, surely Harry hyped him enough on his own without a need for Twitter

  9. #46
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Oscar gets good horses across all trips, Perp, so the middle-ground might be the sweet-spot.
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    Talking of the JLT, Ballyandy runs at Perth tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Oscar gets good horses across all trips, Perp, so the middle-ground might be the sweet-spot.
    Agreed, but if I do get involved I'll most likely take the lower "any race" price and avoid the usual heartache of him running in the wrong race

  12. #49
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    I look forward to inheriting your C&H collection Grass as long as pesky Digger doesn't outlive me
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  13. #50
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    Oscar gets good horses across all trips, Perp, so the middle-ground might be the sweet-spot.
    Sizing John ran in the Arkle when the JLT looked the more sensible option
    Fox Norton ran in the QM when the Ryanair looked more winnable.

    The owner does not **** with intermediate races - FO looks more likely to run in the Arkle.

  14. #51
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Sizing Europe was basically killed with attempts at 3m

    I'd guess RSA is more likely than Arkle
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    To be fair, there was plenty of enthusiasm for Denman, when he progressed into novice-chase ranks.....just not on Twitter. He was all-over shitty old platforms like Racing Forums, back in the day.

    I can see why the comparisons are being made, based on their respective novice-hurdle seasons, as they've probably achieved roughly the same sort of level, but The Tank leaves big hoof-prints for any horse to fill. I'm not entirely certain that FO is up to it, but equally, I do have high-hopes for him as a novice chaser. Talk of the Arkle for the horse is, frankly, insane, imho - he will want the JLT trip as a minimum, and likely the RSA will prove the perfect race for him this season, as I think he is all about galloping. He would get murdered for a turn-of-foot over the Arkle trip, I reckon - especially on Good ground.

    Edit: Denman was rated 155 by Chasers & Hurdlers in his novice hurdle season. I expect FO will be rated within a handful of lbs of that, when the book is published next month.
    I agree the JLT or RSA is the best option but I disagree that FO hasn't got a change of gear. I going to rewatch his races but I was convinced he was a strong traveller with a burst of speed to put a race to bed.

  16. #53
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    For me, FO had to grind it out a little, when upped in class, Brian. He clearly has a bit about him, but I’d have to think he was vulnerable at 2 miles, against the better novices.
    Last edited by Grasshopper; 27th September 2017 at 10:15 PM.
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  17. #54
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Death Duty has his first chase entries next week. Ho Ho Ho
    Last edited by granger; 28th September 2017 at 4:53 PM.
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

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    Ballyandy jumped well today. Not sure he'll be a top class chaser though.

    Fagan is a proper boat who will surely be targeted at the four miler.

  20. #56
    Senior Member Perpetual's Avatar
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    Thought Ballyandy did it quiet nicely, though the best jumping performance of the day was A Sizing Network at Clonmel. He looked to be having a great time!

  21. #57
    Senior Member Grasshopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonjers View Post
    Ballyandy jumped well today. Not sure he'll be a top class chaser though.

    Fagan is a proper boat who will surely be targeted at the four miler.
    OK, it was a first-time-out performance, but I wasn’t entirely convinced by Ballyandy’s jumping myself. He went left a couple of times, and looked steep on the landing-side at a couple of others. He has time to improve, of course, but it wasn’t a performance that had me thinking ‘natural born chaser’.

    Hard to fault his tenacity though. He’s a real scrapper - though I expect he’ll need to be, if he’s to make an impact at the top-level as a novice.
    Spouting shite on here since 2006.

  22. #58
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Death Duty declared for tomorrow
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  23. #59
    Senior Member Maxbet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    He is a stayer. If he wins the Arkle, I'm either gone at this game or it's a rank year of novice chasers
    My Way de Solzen, and Tidal Bay were stayers. The Arkle is run at such a fast pace on the easier old course, that top speed starts a long way out. A balance of stamina and speed is a requisite for such a race.
    ďOne great use of thought is to share it, because sometimes, it can make you think you don't know what to think"

  24. #60
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbet View Post
    My Way de Solzen, and Tidal Bay were stayers. The Arkle is run at such a fast pace on the easier old course, that top speed starts a long way out. A balance of stamina and speed is a requisite for such a race.
    Or just plain shite renewals

    MWDS - Fair Along, Jack the Giant, Faasal

    Tiday Bay - Kruhuyova, Noland, Thyne Again

    These were the days pre Ricci, GIGI and Potts
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

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