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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Douvan rated the same as SS was - what a nice little coincidence that
    Yes but probably fair. He's clearly exceptional, and I agree with the TF review that he will be pretty much unbeatable bar jumping errors in whichever division Willie decides to contest.

    The last time I was as excited as this about a horse was Kauto Star, and I genuinely feel he could potentially eclipse every one of the stars I've loved watching over the years.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granger View Post
    Douvan rated the same as SS was - what a nice little coincidence that
    Not Quite Sprinter Sacre was rated 180p the same as Douvan but Sprinter Sacre's rating was revised and he was given a 184 according to Dan Barber

    Personally I can't split them Sprinter was the better jumper but Douvan has shown he is unquestionably faster and Douvan could outdo my old pal at the end of the day if he stays sound.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  4. #23
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    The difference being Douvan could dominate over two, two and a half, or three. Take you pick!

  5. #24
    Senior Member sunybay's Avatar
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    Douvan looked really good last week, and has great scope but at the moment he is not as good as Sprinter Sacre was a novice

  6. #25
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Think Tanlic is right. Sprinter the better jumper, Douvan has more speed
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunybay View Post
    Douvan looked really good last week, and has great scope but at the moment he is not as good as Sprinter Sacre was a novice
    Can't agree with this to be honest Douvan has done everything that SS done, unquestionably the best horse in training imo.

  8. #27
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    SS won in open company and beat Cue Card in his Arkle.

  9. #28
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    Tanlic - as Sprinter's biggest fan, I'd value your opinion as to whether you think he would have stayed 3 miles. He stayed two and half at Aintree, but was never tried beyond; although there were always rumours that he could have been targeted at the KG, at his peak.
    Last edited by Len Madeiros; 13th April 2016 at 10:27 AM.

  10. #29
    Senior Member tiggers1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euronymous View Post
    SS won in open company and beat Cue Card in his Arkle.
    Agreed, Sizing John and The Game Changer are hardly Cue Card and Al Ferof.

  11. #30
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    He can only comprehensively beat whats in front of him for now

    Just hope he stays healthy long enough to leave a lasting legacy
    Some people say heís the best since Arkle and thatís certainly true when you look at what heís done

  12. #31
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    I think it was pretty obvious that Sprinter Sacre had 190+ in him from his novice season. Douvan, touch and go.

  13. #32
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Madeiros View Post
    Tanlic - as Sprinter's biggest fan, I'd value your opinion as to whether you think he would have stayed 3 miles. He stayed two and half at Aintree, but was never tried beyond; although there were always rumours that he could have been targeted at the KG, at his peak.
    Never doubted it for a minute that he could have won a King George which let's be honest isn't all that much different to the Melling when you win it like he did. He had enough class to never come of the bridle round Kempton.

    As for the Gold Cup ..all I can say is we will never know... but personally I think not. 3 miles would have been his limit but like you I'd be guesing
    Formely Fist of Fury

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    Len Madeiros (13th April 2016)

  15. #33
    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euronymous View Post
    SS won in open company and beat Cue Card in his Arkle.
    That's true but you can only beat what's in front of you and had "Cue Card the novice" been in this years Arkle Douvan would have beaten him hands down.

    I would also suggest you to look back at Cue Card 2012 and him now..there's no comparison.



    From 3 out Douvan was 12 lengths faster in his Arkle but from 4 out to 3 out Sprinter was way faster.

    No matter how you look at it Douvan would have kicked Cue Cards ass in the same manner he beat this years opposition
    Formely Fist of Fury

  16. #34
    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
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    Ratings from the Scottish National meeting, ( oh and some little meeting at Newmarket )


    https://www.timeform.com/horse-racin...sefton-1842016

  17. #35
    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
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    Ratings fromSandown and some flat stuff

    https://www.timeform.com/horse-racin...alileo-2542016

  18. #36
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    There were also classic clues on offer at Sandown on Friday, with Midterm – who was second-favourite for the Derby before the Group 3 Classic Trial – making his much anticipated second start. Though there was not a wide-margin victory or an explosive turn of foot on display in his one-and-a half-length defeat of Algometer (who is now rated 107p), there was still a lot to be positive about given the pair were eight lengths clear of the third, and it was a race that Midterm – who briefly ran green in the closing stages – should benefit a great deal from. He is now Timeform-rated 112p - the same as his sire Galileo was after his first three-year-old start
    The implied comparison with Galileo seems presumptious, given that in the race they mention Galileo beat Milan and Vinnie Roe, no less, by 3.5L and 1L ("ran on well, easily").

  19. #37
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    While I'm not a fan of Timeform, I think the comparison is valid enough.

    I'm told Algometer is one of their horses to follow for this season and they pulled well clear. If Galileo was rated 112p at this stage then Milan would have been no higher than 105 and Vinnie Roe lower again. No-one was to know at that stage of the season that Milan was going to win the St Leger five months later and Vinnie Roe was off only 112 when winning the Irish St Leger, having won only two Listed races en route.

    I don't think they're saying that Midterm is Galileo II, merely pointing to the coincidence with the sire. It's different from saying that X won the same trial as Y had done z many years ago therefore they are comparable (otherwise every Ballysax winner 'could' be as good as High Chaparral).

    At this stage of the season it's normal to compare ratings achieved with ratings achieved by horses from previous seasons. Then again, maybe they're just trying to put the hype machine into the next gear up with a view to selling their product.

    But I'm grateful for the debate. It's helping me get my head out of NH mode and into Flat mode ahead of the Guineas meeting (which I couldn't have told you was this weekend!)
    Last edited by Desert Orchid; 26th April 2016 at 12:10 PM.
    Two's company, three's allowed.

  20. #38
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Not long finished their last Annual. I thought the ratings within were broadly OK, the most noteworthy overration probably being Highland Reel on 129 (they took his Hong Kong win over Flintshire way too literally.)

  21. #39
    Super Moderator Diamond Geezer's Avatar
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    Timeform's verdict on the Old Roan

    https://www.timeform.com/horse-racin...0-23/0350/31/5

  22. #40
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    Not TF, but great news for AW punters:

    http://www.attheraces.com/news/today...n-at-the-races
    Last edited by reet hard; 29th October 2016 at 11:45 PM.

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