Difficult to think of a year for a very long time where this seems so open after last year's Gold Cup saw all manner of outsiders fighting out the finish and Bob's Worth running so moderately and Silviniaco Conti apparently failing to get up the hill
I see suggestions the RSA winner may be out for the season . What's your idea of the winner at this stage ? Possibly for me Taquin de Seuil .
O' Faoilans out for season
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
The Mullins 6th or so string according to the betting.
All comers, all grounds, all beaten!
This perfect mix of poetry and destruction.
Nice to Fingal Bay on Betfair's list. That's my £5 on the right side of the ledger.
Originally Posted by Euronymous
Good luck
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
Having won the Neptune over 2m5f as a youngster I can see no real reason why Simonsig wouldn't be perfectly at home over 3m2f.
Much will depend on whether he still wants to pull Barry's arms out of their sockets or not but normally as they get on in years they become that bit less exuberant.
If he wins the King George and gives the impression he will stay further he certainly wont be 20/1 or anything like it.
Jonjo as usual talks to the media but says nothing about anything but has indicated Holywell might kick off at Carlisle. He was so impressive at Aintree there must be a chance he'll follow in the footsteps of Exotic Dancer and go King George-Gold Cup with him despite the King George betting suggesting he won't. He certainly looked ready by Boxing Day last season when he was knocked over at the first at Wincanton.
Silviniaco Conti for me wouldn't win a Gold Cup if he set of now, Cue Card wouldn't get the trip in a horse box, Bobsworth got away with it once but would need a miracle to win it again.
I can't see any of the old timers winning it so I'd be inclined to look to whatever takes your fancy between Holywell Simonsig Dynaste and Champagne Fever
Formely Fist of Fury
Having won the Neptune over 2m5f as a youngster I can see no real reason why Simonsig wouldn't be perfectly at home over 3m2f.
Much will depend on whether he still wants to pull Barry's arms out of their sockets or not but normally as they get on in years they become that bit less exuberant.
If he wins the King George and gives the impression he will stay further he certainly wont be 20/1 or anything like it.
Jonjo as usual talks to the media but says nothing about anything but has indicated Holywell might kick off at Carlisle. He was so impressive at Aintree there must be a chance he'll follow in the footsteps of Exotic Dancer and go King George-Gold Cup with him despite the King George betting suggesting he won't. He certainly looked ready by Boxing Day last season when he was knocked over at the first at Wincanton.
Silviniaco Conti for me wouldn't win a Gold Cup if he set of now, Cue Card wouldn't get the trip in a horse box, Bobsworth got away with it once but would need a miracle to win it again.
I can't see any of the old timers winning it so I'd be inclined to look to whatever takes your fancy between Holywell Simonsig Dynaste and Champagne Fever
Formely Fist of Fury
The old Cue Card debate comes up again but I would back him at the prices. Clearly the one great talent in the race and horses frequently stay that bit better as they mature. He got Haydock easily enough....as has been said endlessly
Holywell is certainly of interest
BW and SC would be lays for me, much as i like both horses.
they want to stick to the correct distance with Cue Card...he's not the same horse over further..its not a question of staying its a question of diluting his talent..they all "stay" 5 miles+
he "got" Haydock on a flattish track at a distance short of 3 mile..he "got" Kempton 3 mile all except after the last fence..the bit thats important
at 2.5 mile he is a wonder to watch..so you have a choice really..enjoy a great talent over the trip he shows best at or stretch him and view a load of weak finishes where horses of same rating he buries over shorter trip get near or beat him over further
captain chris is same..why folk want to see the equivalent of a champion sprinter get beat at a mile every time they run is a bit of a mystery to me
Last edited by EC1; 10th October 2014 at 11:11 AM.
I know what you are saying and i am a big one for horses showing their best at their best trip, not least because the wrong race can sour a horse
I suppose its more because the rest of the field lacks a stand out, although we might see the likes of holywell develop further quickly
Love this time of the year
i see what you mean..if we think there is no stand out at 3 mile then run the really good 2.5 miler
the problem is that the nature of racing always seems to throw one up that runs above the normal average level for a race and beats the really good shorter distance horse who when stretched is only of average ability at the further trip
its like where you have a race with a long odds on shot..a good many times one of the rags manages to run well and be challenging or beating it..many races have the underestimated threat
Its like Captain Chris in KG ..Long Run managed to beat him in what looked a below average year..LR a low 170's horse managed to run to his best on that day and CC mustered below average level and so got beat
CC would bury a horse of LR's abilty at shorter trips..so all you are doing is stretching brilliance out to the degree it makes the superstar just average
many punters underestimate distance as a handicap..to me its not far off being as important as the going..lots will be backing both CC's at further than their optimum this season..when they lose by a short distance will say..well he stayed only lost by a length..forgetting that he would stuffed the winners level of horse at his best trip.
Last edited by EC1; 10th October 2014 at 11:59 AM.
Totally agree. Distance is underestimated. In fairness the occasional spine tingling horse will trump that concern and for me Cue Card is very much that horse for me
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh Clive. I argued last year that his defeat in the King George 2 years ago was nothing to do with him not staying.
There no doubting his class despite all the names I justifiably called him in the early days and there is no substitute for class.
If someone told me after the race that Cue Card won the Gold Cup I certainly wouldn't be surprised.
It will be interesting to see how he performs in the King George if he turns up. For me Joe Tizzard made far to much use of the horse last year which resulted in him tiring badly rather than stamina and I hope they don't make that mistake again.
Kempton has the reputation of being and easy 3 miles but it's anything but if they go a grade 1 pace....year after year they end up strung out like Monday's washing. Attempting to make all like Cue Card did can make it even more tiring
Last edited by Tanlic; 10th October 2014 at 3:36 PM.
Formely Fist of Fury
I think all of that is about right but also without checking his form thoroughly, might also be a case of him just being a little stronger left handed?
Cue Card depends on his pace and slick jumping to see his rivals off, and would win nothing held up for a run. He set a strong pace in the KG but didn't last home because of it.
The notion that he'd stay the Gold Cup trip is nearly as daft as the one that Silviniaco Conti (the clear benefactor from the strong KG pace) doesn't.
I'm not ruling Bob's Worth out yet. I'm pretty sure something must have been amiss in this year's race as he hammered most of that field in the Lexus.
Last edited by tiggers1972; 10th October 2014 at 6:39 PM.
His last winning GC was a grueller. Many of us said at the time that none of the horses would be the same again. I doubt he can regain
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
Probably right Granger, but he is to me what HF is to you guys
Last edited by tiggers1972; 10th October 2014 at 8:48 PM.
No offence....but no he isn't.....not by a long shot.
"Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".
SlimChance, March 2018
No offence....but no he isn't.....not by a long shot.
no he isn't really..I can't see Tiggers having his bedroom wall papered in Bobsworth pattern..table lamp with a picture of Bobsworth on it...carpets with print of Bobsworth every square foot..mugs and plates with pictures of Bobsworth on..toilet paper with watermarks of Bobsworth running through it..wife with horses head on that looks like Bobsworth that she has to wear at bedtime
whereas i can see Grassy.............
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