Sharp realisation of how the game is going here
https://www.independent.ie/sport/hor...-36623259.html
Sharp realisation of how the game is going here
https://www.independent.ie/sport/hor...-36623259.html
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
It's all about money.
Bookmakers are taking out far too much.
Someone said on TV (Mccoy?) recently that a horse should be able to pay its way if it wins two races a season. I don't think that's realistic. Plenty of horses don't win at all. I think every race should be worth a minimum of £10k and every race Class 3 should be worth at least £15k and every Class 2 race a bare minimum of £25k, Flat & NH.
So long as we have bookmakers sucking the guts out of our sport it can't happen.
The other side of that coin, though, is that if the prize money goes up training fees will go up because people are greedy and trainers are no different so there's a case for saying trainers shouldn't really complain because they are part of the problem.
Last edited by Desert Orchid; 20th February 2018 at 6:25 PM.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Think it's far too easy to blame bookmakers for all of racing's ills.
In the case of Irish trainers being unable to make it pay, the issue seems quite clear to me; there are too many good/expensively-bought horses, in the hands of too few powerful owners*, who place their horses with too small a pool of trainers.
This results in an ever-increasing pool of smaller trainers, who only have the means to purchase (effectively) the flotsam. And even when these smaller trainers do find a race for said flotsam, the strong likelihood is that they will run into something from the powerful owners anyway - even if it's a 5th, 6th or 7th stringer. In this scenario, increasing prize-money just means more cash going to the likes of Gigginstown, with the smaller yards basically no better off. In that sense, I don't think it's a bookmaker or funding issue.
Thankfully, the same scenario does not seem to prevail on the UK side if the Irish Sea......or if it does, it is nowhere near as malignant as it appears to be in Ireland.
* JP McManus is one powerful owner who I immediately absolve of this accusation, because he spreads his horses all over the parish, and rarely (if ever) moves a horse he has purchased, from its resident trainer - even if that trainer happens to be completely useless. He even sends horses to be trained by Jonjo O'Neill - an act of charity that must surely be designed solely as a means to get into Heaven.
Last edited by Grasshopper; 21st February 2018 at 4:19 PM.
"Beat the price and lose. It's what we do".
SlimChance, March 2018
Good post Nick
For all JPs ills, he certainly keeps a few in jobs with his division of his horses.
When Colm Murphy can't make it pay, you know it's a top heavy game over here
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
Irish Nash
Elliott has 30 entries
Mullins 18
Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done
The older I get the better I was.
What's happening in Irish racing is no different to what's happening in plenty of other areas of economic activity. Small businesses are being squeezed out by bigger ones.Originally Posted by Grasshopper
The trend is more advanced and pronounced in Ireland because it's a smaller pond to start with and in recent years plenty of big owners like Ricci, Wylie, Potts, Hemmings, Munir & Souede etc have chosen to have horses trained in Ireland because of the decent prize money and the excellence of certain trainers. There are more such owners with big strings of horses than there used to be because inequalities of wealth and income are on the increase in the world in general - the rich are getting (much) richer.
You say the same thing hasn't happened yet in the UK, Nick, but I would argue that British trainers are also being squeezed. Look at the decline in the number of festival winners from British stables in recent years, look at the small fields for some of the big races this season and the very weak state of NH racing in the north.
On the plus side for Irish racing, there are more good horses in the country than ever before, even if they are concentrated in a handful of stables. Twenty years ago it would never have been possible to stage a Dublin racing festival with the depth of quality we enjoyed a few weeks ago.
Last edited by Grey; 21st February 2018 at 6:57 PM.
McCoy must have high profile races in mind, you can win two class 5 and make £7k but that's not going to cover costs at all.
I think McCoy was saying how it should be. At least that's my understanding of the way he said it.
Illegitimi non carborundum
Currently not viable with the number of fixtures and the amount of money to go round. Something radical would need to be instigated.
I am sure I told my Espartano story before....
We took him over on May 30 2008.
May 31 second
June 10 second
june 12 win (Leopardstown)
June 19 fourth (Leop)
June 26 fourth
Mid July fourth
late July pulled up nasal bleed
late October win (Leop)
early Nov fifth
mid Nov fifth Dundalk.
Previous owner got half prize of first win.
Horse had lots of extras physio and bleed medication so at year end there was 600 due to trainer.
When a syndicate member told a senior steward this his answer was " You must remember prizemoney is only meant to cover Turf Club expenses !"
late July pulled up nasal bleed
late October win (Leop)
Nicely done Sir.
"And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.
And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."
14/1 as well !
Happy days !!
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