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Thread: WP Mullins

  1. #61
    Senior Member Euronymous's Avatar
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    Call the Police on Sunday and now Lambro today, horses that should be 5 and 6/1 rags are going off at nearly odds on. Ridiculous how overbet some of his animals are.

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    Senior Member Tanlic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by On The Bridle View Post
    His record in the real Championship races at Cheltenham is poor considering the firepower and potential as his disposal. 1 Champion Hurdle, 0 Champion Chases, 0 World Hurdles, 0 Gold Cups.

    Compare that with his peers Henderson and Nicholls ...........

    35% strike rate is unreal though
    Could it be he believes a bird in the hand?............That 35% is a lot of dosh.

    He's never been shy at running Hurricane Fly at every opportunity CH or no CH or Thousand Stars for that matter. The latter has picked up a small fortune in win and place money and probably wasn't off a yard half the time. 3/4 million in his lifetime and no doubt will ad to that

    Maybe it's not all about about winning Gold Cups and Champion hurdles for him because from a financial point of view he pulls in just as much as they do in a season in prize money without being as dependent on winning the big ones.
    Formely Fist of Fury

  3. #63
    Senior Member Bar the Bull's Avatar
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    Way to miss my point, an capall.
    Last edited by Bar the Bull; 28th February 2013 at 8:26 PM.

  4. #64
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    fiveforthree is entered in the coral cup so he must still be around
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    Senior Member an capall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bar the Bull View Post
    Way to miss my point, an capall.
    If you ever get your act together and turn up for the GWID you realise fairly instantly that I am as thick as a bottle of shite.
    "And still they gazed and still the wonder grew. That one small head could carry all he knew.

    And that small head knew that Impaire Et Passe would win the Champion Hurdle."

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    Senior Member Bar the Bull's Avatar
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    You'd need to make it worth my while.
    Welsh and Proud.

  7. #67
    Senior Member del boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an capall View Post
    If you ever get your act together and turn up for the GWID you realise fairly instantly that I am as thick as a bottle of shite.
    I can verify this. God love him..
    "Sometimes a horse is so far behind in a race, it actually thinks its leading...." Junior Soprano

  8. #68
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    In a slightly different manner it is quite similar to the m pipe record. Bar and on the bridle are right. It's not just that he has had surprisingly few winners of the championship races but considering all that juvenile fire power, not that many real contenders too. I suspect a few of those names mentioned are in a tescos lasagne now

  9. #69
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    I hope this is a useful comparison of the big three trainers of the present era, Nicky Henderson, Willy Mullins and Paul Nicholls.

    Mullins has won more Grade 1 races than the other two, with a one third/two thirds split between open and novice/bumper events. For Henderson the split is 50/50 and for Nicholls it is two thirds/one third:


    Grade 1 races won since 1995

    Henderson 55 (27 open races, 28 novice/bumper races)
    Mullins 103 (36 open including Mares, 67 novice/bumper)
    Nicholls 92 (61 open, 31 novice/bumper)



    The split is a bit different, though when you break it down between winning horses rather than races won. Half of Henderson's Grade 1 winning horses managed to win in open company, the other half in novice company only, and the split is more or less the same for Mullins's horses. For Nicholls the split is three quarters open, one quarter novice only:

    Henderson 15 out of his 30 Grade 1 winning horses only won novice/bumper events
    Mullins 22 out of 38
    Nicholls 13 out of 32


    Maybe part of the explanation is to do with where they source their horses. All three buy horses that have already raced in France, but Nicholls to an even greater extent than the other two. Most young horses have comparatively short careers but these imports are made horses that perhaps have already proven they can stand up to racing.

    Of Henderson's 15 winners of open races, 5 made their debut with him, 2 had been with other UK/Irish jump trainers, 2 ran in points, 5 ran in France, 1 came from the flat

    The corresponding figures for Mullins and Nicholls were
    Mullins 16 6* 1 2 6 1 *one of these started with WPM on the flat

    Nicholls 19 4 3 1 10 1
    Last edited by Grey; 1st March 2013 at 9:13 PM.

  10. #70
    Senior Member On The Bridle's Avatar
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    That's all very well and good Grey but we are simple people ....can I summarise that all that good maths type stuff you have concocted goes to support my pre-conceived bias that Mullins knocks the shite out of them as young horses and they don't train on like one would expect....
    Do not mistake my silence for ignorance, my calmness for acceptance nor my kindness for weakness.

  11. #71
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    Yes...

    And stats are interesting but there are grade ones and grade ones of course.

    Fact is that for me Nichols ( I live raving about him here, really winds people up..) keeps his horses at their best superbly well and that to me is the mark of an excpetional trainer. More than anything else. Not quite sure I can recall any trainer quite so adept at this.

    Another contrary example is King. How many of his last the course? And we all recall M. Pipe.

  12. #72
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    The figures lend some support your argument, Barry, but you should bear in mind that half of Mullins's Grade 1 wins have come in the last four years or so, and therefore quite a few of the horses have not yet moved on to open company (e.g. Champagne Fever, Boston Bob etc etc).

    It's a while though since he brought one through to the top ranks of open company whose career he had launched himself. Fiveforthree's 2009 win in the stayers' hurdle at Punchestown is the most recent example I could find. All the rest had their introductions to racing elsewhere. Mind you that would be largely true of Henderson and Nicholls as well.

    The figures also show that Nicholls's Grade 1 horses have won an average of 3 such races each, Mullins's 2.5 and Henderson's 2. Nicholls has had the multiple Grade 1 winners Kauto Star, Denman, Big Bucks and Master Minded and as clivex says he has obviously done extremely well with them. The horses boosting Mullins's average over Henderson are Florida Pearl and Hurricane Fly.

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    Good stats though grey

    Its good to have people to do these things for you. Well done. You can have the rest of the afternoon off now

  14. #74
    Senior Member Grey's Avatar
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    That was very kind of you, I know you normally expect people to work very long hours.

  15. #75
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    RW in today's post comparing his two bosses

    Paul is very organised and wears heart on his sleeve whereas Willie is really laid back and not organised at all
    Last edited by granger; 3rd March 2013 at 12:17 PM.
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  16. #76
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    I remember Mullins having an awful run of bad lack a few years back with career ending injuries to top young horses. Within eight months he lost at least six young horses that had either won or were placed in Graded races. Uimhiraceathair was injured on the eve of Cheltenham and never ran again, he lost Citizen Vic at Cheltenham and Rhyl Accord at Punchestown, while Fionnegas, Secant Star and Enterprise Park suffered racecouse injuries that ended their careers.
    Last edited by chroniclandlord; 10th March 2013 at 2:03 AM.

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    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    BSM a well beaten 9th in Japan
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  18. #78
    Senior Member del boy's Avatar
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    Mullins gone at the game...
    "Sometimes a horse is so far behind in a race, it actually thinks its leading...." Junior Soprano

  19. #79
    Senior Member granger's Avatar
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    Nice jolly in Japan for all
    Some people say he’s the best since Arkle and that’s certainly true when you look at what he’s done

  20. #80
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    I was looking at the Fairyhouse entries, over the three days, Mullins has 54 different horses entered, of which less than a dozen ran at Cheltenham. Some depth of talent in Clonsutton.

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